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Re: [O] NLS/Augment

From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: [O] NLS/Augment
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 20:39:04 +0200
User-agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13)

* Adam Porter <address@hidden> [2019-08-12 21:50]:
> Thanks for sharing those links, those videos are fascinating.  It's
> amazing how much some of what he demonstrates resembles features in Org
> and Emacs, and even surpasses them, over 50 years ago!  Even the
> presentation itself, with picture-in-picture videoconferencing with
> screen sharing, surpasses most conference presentations on YouTube!

I am glad to have found that information as it clarifies what means
Internet as from its beginnings. That is definitely the first thing to
teach in computer classes when mentioning Internet.

It is also sad state that for long time the concepts were not
available to people and still are not.

The file system concept is somehow unintentionally or intentionally
hidden to common people. It is a hierarchy, a data tree, that is well
suitable for nice sorting of files, but how to sort files really is
not well explained, it is somehow lacking. For example there is not
example concept given in books or instructions of operating systems
on how to keep files. I think it would be beneficial.

So is the concept of hierarchical data management or structured data

And I remember the concept of entering the links and menus already
from the BBS[1], and I do not know why and how, I remember being
isolated in former Yugoslavia, without any contact to Internet or
outside knowledge, and we were making similar menus like on the demo
of Douglas Engelbart[2] on our small replicas of TRS-80 computers.

Video conferencing is quite a large need and have been shown in movies
so many times, but is still not developed and not in use by large. Sad
situation, I was really expecting much more from the 21st century,
about 50 years after the inventions of Douglas Engelbart.

Org mode is a simple way by which one can build such augmented
information systems. But it is not as integrated.

Look at "What it offered"[3]:
> Doug's lab pioneered progressive work processes while using each
> successive version of NLS/Augment for all its own knowledge work,
> from drafting, publishing, email, shared screen collaborative
> viewing and editing

There are packages and possibilities for shared screen and
collaborative viewing, publishing on Internet and editing. I am not
sure if this is really demanded overall. But in one way or other we
have it in GNU Emacs.

GNU Emacs basically became what NLS/Augment offered and what Douglas
Engelbart envisioned

> document cataloging

Not sure about that, but software tools exist for this, maybe one such
is Orgadoc[4], and document indexers also exist. However, not well
integrated and not easily accessible to population.

> project management

We are lucky that Org mode offers project management features provided
the user knows how to start and where to start. But what about the
population? Project management shall be introduced in my opinion by
every operating system.

In fact every operating system shall be given to user with one or
other similar information management package.

For my biased needs it would be best to improve the GNU Emacs to the
level that it can boot and then offer to users options to launch other

> shared address book,

I guess that LDAP[5] and various CRM[6] related software do offer such
possibilites. We still do not have such options from GNU Emacs, I wish
we would. It is necessary for any larger organization or remote work
stations to have some kind of centralized database from which access
to shared address book would be possible.

I guess this can be easily implemented in GNU Emacs by creating an SQL
database to which Emacs work stations could gain the access.

Of course there would be no need for slow motion browsers.

> all source code development and maintenance

This we surely have within Emacs

> -- all in an integrated hyper groupware environment filled with
> special features for high performance work.

Emacs has this pretty much, but not as much as I would wish and
like. Hyperlinking is important feature. We cannot just link
everything in Emacs. GNU Hyperbole[7] have given the concept of
linking to many information references, but it is not as polished and
not as easy to go for common man.

> For example, you can create a link to any paragraph or line of code
> or email paragraph

That would be great. I need this feature, this would be so useful. It
should not matter which type of file it is. Not just Org files, it
should work like Hyperbole on many other files. 

> you can see when paragraphs and lines of code were last edited and
> by whom

Version control systems exist, we have this.

> and even view a file filtered by author since a certain date and
> time (as in why doesn't the code work this morning, let's see who
> was in there changing what when!)

This can be known today by using version control systems, including
file system ownership.

> you can browse with outline views,

Many outlines modes exist in GNU Emacs. Org mode is one of them. I
wish Org could have some more features from the Cherrytree[8], yet
both are doing very nice. Koutliner[9] is GNU Hyperbole way for
outline view of information, which may link to all kinds of documents
and provide similar NLS/Augment features.

> drill down into the structure of a document or source code and fly
> around with a number of precision browsing features and custom
> viewing features, and edit the structure as well as the text, within
> and across files and application domains.

This we surely have with the GNU Emacs.

But hey, we are re-discovering what was known and discovered 50 years
ago. And we get so much excited.

So why nobody teach the basics of NLS/Augment concepts when computer
is started?

Is entertainment more important for our civilization or learning how
to organize ourselves?

Is it intentional that we are moved away from efficient computer


Footnotes: [1] Bulletin Board Systems

[2]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart

[3]  http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/155/87/

[4]  https://www.gnu.org/software/orgadoc/

[5]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_Directory_Access_Protocol

[6]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_relationship_management

[7]  https://www.gnu.org/software/hyperbole/

[8]  https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/

[9]  https://www.gnu.org/software/hyperbole/koutline-example.html

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