Re: [O] Bug: Inconsistent effort handling in clock totals in maint [9.1.13 (release_9.1.13 @ /home/bernt/git/org-mode/lisp/)]

[Bernt Hansen]

Nicolas Goaziou <address@hidden> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Bernt Hansen <address@hidden> writes:
>
>>    Notice modeline total has [0:05/0:15]
>>    So 'do something' has an effort of 15 minutes.  It may be entered wrong 
>> but it is a bare 15 value
>>    instead of 15:00 or 00:15
>>
>>    :EFFORT:   15
>>
>> 6) Go back to Test Parent
>>    C-c C-p
>>
>> 7) Enter column mode
>>    C-C C-x C-c
>>
>>    Notice the total Effort is 15 hours and 30 minutes
>>    Column mode is using the 15 effort as hours not minutes while clocking 
>> uses it as minutes.
>>    When I run into this I change the effort value to either 15:00 or 00:15 
>> but it would be better if it was handled consistently.
>
> Unfortunately, this discrepancy has deep roots. For example, the manual
> has this:
>
>           {:}       Sum times, HH:MM, plain numbers are hours.
>
> Changing {:} or effort behaviour could be annoying. We may add another
> summary-type, e.g. {::}, with the following description:
>
>           {::}       Sum times, HH:MM, plain numbers are minutes.
>
> WDYT?

I am fine with plain numbers being interpretted as hours.  I don't think
we need a second interpretation for it (as minutes).

Would it be possible to make the mode line total match whatever the
current column view totalling is?  Since the mode line total is using
plain numbers as minutes not hours.

I am just looking for consistency and existing setups with column view
shouldn't be broken by a change here -- but I doubt anyone depends on
the display on the mode line -- so if that changed from minutes to hours
I would be fine with that.

I don't think changing a bare 15 effort to mean minutes instead of the
hours is a good idea - in case existing users already have effort data
with plain numbers -- their estimates will change drastically.  But
making the effort total on the mode line change from 15 minutes to 15
hours will be consistent with the column view interpretation of plain
numbers and it will be more obvious when you clock in that it isn't what
you are expecting.

OTOH people that don't use column view at all (do we have users like
that?) that use clocking and the current behaviour on the mode line
might be surprised when their total value changes from minutes to
hours... but other than an 'alarm' indicator when you hit the limit it
doesn't really do anything else that is useful as far as I know.

My reason for using efforts is in estimating work on tasks and then
following through and clocking the work to see how good my estimate
really was.  Column view as is works great for that.  I find the mode
line timer showing progress towards my effort limit useful but it is
just a visual indication of how far along I am on the task currently
being clocked -- and it jumps out as being wrong when the effort is a
plain number.

Any existing effort estimates I have with plain numbers are already
hours in the existing column view code and I wouldn't want my estimates
to change all of a sudden because we changed the default plain numbers
from hours to minutes.

Ideally I think I just want the mode line total to behave the same as
the existing column view behaviour as far as plain numbers are concerned
if this is easy and not causing more problems than it fixes.

Otherwise I can live with it -- it's been this way for years I think --
and I will just change my effort values to always include both HH:MM and
avoid plain numbers.

Thanks,
Bernt