Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help'

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 25.04.2021 13:38, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:00 +0300
> >
> > On 25.04.2021 10:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > > > Perhaps the easiest fix would be to handle Delete same as Backspace here.
> > > > Yes, that could alleviate the problem in this particular case.
> > > Please don't, that would be a horribly wrong change.
> >
> > I have described an obvious problem: Emacs says press DEL to scroll, the
> > user presses Del on their keyboard, and Emacs exits instead.
>
> I'm not opposed to finding a solution, I just don't think blindly
> replacing each DEL with Backspace is a good solution.

That's not what I suggested there.

> We could mention Backspace in the text there, or we could add
> PgUp/PgDn, for example

Either/both would be an improvement.

In the graphical Emacs, at least, we could print <backspace> there 
instead of DEL. That should be unambiguous.

> > All that in a Help interface, which is supposed to help newbies. Not
> > grizzled veterans.
>
> You may be surprised to learn that I use that command quite often.

Not really.

But still, the Help interface shouldn't be primarily targeted at people 
who know most of that stuff already.

I have tried to describe the situation with DEL as I understand it in 
another email, and probably got it only half right. After using Emacs 
for a decade and contributing code for a large part of it.

> And in any case, we are not going to make veterans, grizzled or not,
> unlearn what they have learned long ago, I hope.

Not everything in Emacs is perfect. Sometimes an improvement justifies a 
breaking change.

> > It's a real problem, if you want people to actually use this feature.
> >
> >   > Like making C-f move backwards.
> >
> > If C-f never did anything in a certain interface, and doing this would
> > help usability, why not.
>
> But DEL does do something.  And so does Delete.

Abort? That isn't really "doing anything".

And aborting is even less semantic for that key than duplicating Backspace.