RE: hyperlinks in variable's value - links to libraries

[Drew Adams]

     >       ;; Hyperlinks in variable's value are quite frequently
     >       ;; inappropriate e.g C-h v <RET> features <RET>
     >       ;; (help-xref-on-pp from (point))
     >
     >     I disagree with the "fix" of commenting out this
     >     line - at the least, I would like such links to be an option.

    I commented it out, rather than remove it, in case someone came
    up with a better solution,

Good idea.

    not for someone to lobby to revert it.

I'm certainly not lobbying to just revert it. I would like to see:

1. It reverted, so *Help* buffers can once again link users to related
source code and object (e.g. variable) descriptions.

2. *Libraries* also be linked, in addition to functions and variables - see
the code I sent, as an example. This is especially useful for `C-h v
features'.

3. An option be added, so users can skip adding *Help* links to save time,
if they like.

4. In addition to #3, a button in *Help* to show links. If the option in #3
were turned off, then the buffer would be displayed without the
time-consuming object links (variables, libraries, etc.), but you could
still click a `Show Links' button to add the links. IOW, add the links only
upon demand.

5. After links have been shown once, the button would change to `Hide
Links', to enhance readibility (reduce visual clutter). Once the links have
been calculated (`Show Links'), the link info would be kept - it would not
be lost via `Hide Links' - so redisplay via `Show Links' would be fast.

I'm especially interested in #2.

    I don't think it was in response to a report you made

Maybe you're right. I can't find any message where I mentioned that (and
Emacs bug reports don't go through my email client, so I get no copy of the
bug-report msg, and I'm too lazy to search the emacs-pretest archive).

    and `features' was just an example, although I can't remember the
others.

The other you mentioned (2005-05-17, subject Forward button in help buffer)
was `gud-minor-mode'.

    Many variables like mode-line-format or after-load-list have a lot of
    underlining, some of which isn't that helpful (a user is hardly
    likely to want click on concat or user-init-file) and it makes it
    harder to see what you're looking at.

Visual clutter is not a reason to not link things; it is a reason to get rid
of visual clutter.

The solution to visual overload from underlining when a buffer is mainly
links (i.e. link-dense) is to not have the face show that a link is present,
but rely on mouseover to show that. If a buffer is truly link-dense, then
users discover right away that things are linked, because the mouse is
always over a link. But see below - *Help* is not a good candidate for this
approach.

If I didn't know what `concat' and `user-init-file' are, I might well want
to click them to find out. Users are various, with different backgrounds,
different needs, interacting in different contexts.

    I think its best not to lead users anywhere than up the garden path.

Meaning? Example?

    The doc strings on the other hand can be more carefully
    crafted to DTRT.

What's the connection? I want to see the list of features when I use `C-h v
features'. How does rewriting the doc string affect the current discussion?

     >     Although it can be slow, it is very useful: looking at `features'
     >     should be an entry point to accessing the features listed.

    The links are still available on mouse-2 as help-follow,
    they're just not underlined or highlighted.

That would be appropriate if all *Help* buffers were link-dense, so that
random mouseover would show users that most things are linked. It's not
appropriate for *Help* however, because most *Help* buffers are not
link-dense.

The main problem, for me, is that library names are not linked to libraries.
That is the suggestion I'm making.

    Having a help-echo saying "mouse-2, RET: describe this function"
    while over a feature is not helpful IMO, a hinder-echo you could say.

I have no stake in help-echoes. I too find them annoying often.

A link should be indicated by a face (preferably blue underline), unless the
buffer is always link-dense (and especially if the buffer is essentially a
list or table). Dired, *grep*, and Buffer List are examples of such
link-dense tables - there is no need for a face to indicate links in such
buffers. Other buffers, including *Help* and *Info* should show links with a
special face (underline).