Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi Liam,


sometimes I think if it is your mood to be so melodramatic or if 
yourself have some need or business need and want to satisfy. When you 
write "burning needs", are they yours?
You start with one point, Wayland... touch it and then start spreading 
FUD about GNUstep. Is it a kind of sport?

Liam Proven wrote:
> Not my project and nothing to do with me. I just thought it might be
> of interest.
>
> https://github.com/phkaeser/wlmaker/tree/main
>
> Why?

It is cool what somebody works on that. Thanks for the pointer.


> Well this is highly relevant to NEXTSPACE and GSDE.
>
> Wayland is not yet ready to replace X11 but it is doing so anyway, right now.
>
> The next version of Fedora will not include X.org by default. Ubuntu
> will follow close behind.

But there will be Xwayland. And also GNUstep is X11 agnostic. It can run 
on Windows, remember? Contribute to the wayland backend if you like it 
so much.
I refrain about my opinions on X11 or Wayland here.

> For example the 2 most visible projects to offer replacements for
> Apple macOS do not use GNUstep:
>
> https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/
>
> https://ravynos.com/

Yes, you refer to a project which is just some stuff over FreeBS and 
which needs all the Apple Frameworks.
Oh, there is Coca, to your dismay.

But just a quick look here:
https://github.com/ravynsoft/ravynos/tree/main/Frameworks/AppKit

shows the project is doomed. It essentially uses Cocotron, an almost 20 
year old, dead codebase which was quite incomplete even back them, 
targeted only to some specific things.
Just because of Licensing concerns? we will see how far it goes. When it 
will be able to run a full application like GNUmail, GWorkspace or 
PRICE, we shall see.

Also I may add, I have some doubts that Cocotron is really a clean-room 
implementation and didn't get from GNUstep, but that is another point 
Gregory and i had years ago.


> 2. A desktop environment for Linux and xBSD built with this tools. I
> know of 2 extant desktop environments built from these: NEXTSPACE and
> GSDE.

Then your knowledge is limited. Those are just the latest and most 
"NeXT" looking.
There are other projects, at various state of completeness and vitality.

> 3. A Linux software packaging and distribution system built from
> these: ".app" application bundles. This is, or at least should have
> been, a rival to AppImage, the GNOME Flatpak format, and Canonical's
> Snap format.

What you think should have been, doesn't matter. We don't need Flatpak. 
You just take an app, drag it in your Application folder and it works!
For Frameworks it is a little bit more complicated due to linker issues.
For more complex things we need to have an Installer, like Apples, with 
scripts.

Or, of course, you rely on the host packaging system.

I don't see what problem you want to solve.

> Swift is FOSS and cross-platform. It runs on and targets all Apple
> OSes, plus Linux, Android, and Windows, as my colleague wrote:
> https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/30/official_swift_programming_for_windows/

Yeah.. now let's see how many projects use Swift beyond Apple MacOS or iOS.

https://github.com/SwiftForWindows/SwiftForWindows/issues/76

e.g. says "The project is Dead".

Riccardo