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Re: [USRP-users] N310 self interference with packet comms and correlatio


From: Johannes Demel
Subject: Re: [USRP-users] N310 self interference with packet comms and correlation estimator
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:14:37 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0

Hi Cameron,

where did you find this 140us switching time? I'm curious.

If I recall correctly, my tests with N310s indicate 18us delay between TX and RX with timed bursts at sample x and corresponding start of burst in RX at x+18us. The behavior you observe seems to be different.

How does your flowgraph look like?

Cheers
Johannes

On 20.08.20 17:21, Cameron Matson wrote:
Hello everyone,

An update: I made an attempt to pad the tx signal with 0s to no avail. My understanding is that TX/RX handles the switching from TX to RX, and is "always RX" unless there's something to TX.  The N310 datasheet says that the switching time is 140 us.  I've tried adding 0s which at my sample rate and frequency would be well above that.  But it looks like the message I'm sending is immediately received in full, with some shift in the IQ data (below).  It appears it's operating in full-duplex, which I don't want--I want TDD.  What's strange is that if I set it to send on TX/RX and receive on RX2 (which to my understanding /should/ be full duplex) it doesn't see the transmitted signal.

Am I doing something wrong?
image.png

Thanks,
Cameron

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:03 PM Cameron Matson <ncmatson95@gmail.com <mailto:ncmatson95@gmail.com>> wrote:

    Forgot to reply to the list.

    ---------- Forwarded message ---------
    From: *Cameron Matson* <ncmatson95@gmail.com
    <mailto:ncmatson95@gmail.com>>
    Date: Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:01 PM
    Subject: Re: [USRP-users] N310 self interference with packet comms
    and correlation estimator
    To: Jeff Long <willcode4@gmail.com <mailto:willcode4@gmail.com>>


    I'm using one TX/RX port for both.

    I'm using the same frequency for transmit and receive because the
    system I'm trying to implement will eventually have multiple
    "transmitter" nodes like I've described trying to communicate to a
    single receiver.  The rx part of the transmitter is for collision
    avoidance, so it needs to be on the same frequency as the other
    transmitters so it can sense when the channel is busy.

    I'm not sure I fully understand the post you included, with respect
    to the setup/teardown of the different streams. But the zero padding
    seems like it might work. My thoughts are that it's either a buffer
    remnant or reflections off nearby objects or the radio itself. I
    think transmitting empty data after the burst before transitioning
    back to rx might help.

    Thanks!
    Cameron

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 11:33 AM Jeff Long <willcode4@gmail.com
    <mailto:willcode4@gmail.com>> wrote:

        Or maybe this is what you're seeing. Except from
        
https://usrp-users.ettus.narkive.com/s4vNkAe9/buffer-reset-or-clear-issue-on-usrp-n200

        """
        The buffers should clear whenever the device object is
        constructed, also
        when the transmit or receive streamer is constructed.

        If you dont want to tear-down and re-construct the rx streamer,
        you can
        simply issue a stop stream command (if this is continuous
        streaming),
        and call recv() until timeout. This will also flush out rx buffers.

        Now the filters in the DSP chains do have history to them. So if
        you are
        having some issue with that, tx streams should be padded out at
        their
        end so the upconversion filters have zeros in their history;
        likewise,
        you an throw out the first several rx samples, which could be rx
        history
        from the last run.
        """

        On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:07 PM Jeff Long <willcode4@gmail.com
        <mailto:willcode4@gmail.com>> wrote:

            This is why cell phones use different uplink/downlink
            frequencies (or time slots). Are you using two different
            USRP ports for TX and RX and connecting them to the same
            antenna? Or are you using a TX/RX port with tx and rx
            streamers attached?

            On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:48 AM Cameron Matson via
            USRP-users <usrp-users@lists.ettus.com
            <mailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com>> wrote:

                Hey everyone,

                I've copied both the gnuradio and usrp lists, since I'm
                not sure if the question has a software or hardware
                answer, so I apologize for duplicate emails.

                I am attempting to set up a wireless transceiver using
                N310s and the packet tx/rx examples from gnuradio.  I
                combined both the tx and rx chains in one flowgraph with
                zeromq source/sink blocks like this:

                [zmq source] -> [packet tx] -> [usrp sink]
                and
                [usrp source] -> [packet rx] -> [zmq sink]

                I have a separate python file running in a separate
                process.  That handles messages from the zmq blocks and
                controls state changes between "backoff", "listen" and
                "talk"

                I'm not sure the specific terminology for the variety of
                duplex I'm trying to implement, but I want the TX and RX
                to happen on the same frequency using one antenna.  The
                problem is that if I use the same frequency, my RX chain
                immediately "hears" the signal that was transmitted.  By
                "hears" I mean that the first part of the [packet rx]
                block, which is the [correlation estimator] block
                detects the signal as a valid packet.  The problem is
                that because the amplitude of my desired rx signal is
                low, I've had to set the threshold of the correlation
                estimator relatively low--and so the recently
                transmitted signal, which has a much higher amplitude
                being right next to the rx antenna, overwhelms the
                detector.  This doesn't happen if I have the TX and RX
                on different frequencies

                What I don't quite fully understand is what happens on
                the N310 when a flow graph with both transmit and
                receive processes are active.  I can see from the LEDs
                that it is "receiving" most of the time and when it gets
                a message to transmit it will blink to tx and then
                back.  What happens in this process?  One thought is
                that since its the same antenna, the tx and rx might
                share a buffer and the tx data is still present there.

                Is what I'm trying to do even possible?

                Thanks for your time,

                Cameron
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