Re: [Denemo-devel] Request for future midi support from a linuxsampler-dev

[Richard Shann]

Yes to all this, that is what I would do. 
At the moment I do the opposite for checking a score by listening - I
put the playback tempo up, for a quicker check. But the interface to
playback tempo is poor of course, and changes in tempo are not looked
for (DenemoDirectives will see to that).

Richard

On Sat, 2009-01-31 at 14:46 +0300, alex stone wrote:
> I'll quickly add to this, that a tempo slider should be global, and
> reflect any tempo variations written into the score, within the
> setting. 
> 
> I.E. If the original tempo is allegro, and you have a ritard 4 bars
> in, then even if you set the tempo for recording midi in to half
> speed, the ritard responds to the NEW half speed tempo in context.
> 
> Otherwise your ritards may well outpace your recording tempo, and
> sound completely weird.
> 
> Alex.
> 
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:43 PM, alex stone <address@hidden>
> wrote:
>         Richard, you have it. A simple timing strip at the top of the
>         score, reflecting minutes, seconds, smpte, etc... (user
>         defined?)
>         The strip would need to expand and contract based on timing
>         variations, so as to keep the score in real context visually.
>         (If this is difficult, then keeping the timing strip in strict
>         visual duration, and have measures in the score expand and
>         contract to fit timing could serve us ok too. Of course the
>         score would need to print correctly, and maybe menu items
>         entitled: ScoreTime View, and TimeStrip View would achieve
>         this.)
>         
>         
>         As to your enthusiasm for inputting from a midi keyboard, you
>         have my vote on this one too.
>         
>         I have a suggestion for inputting/recording at tempo.
>         
>         Some lines and phrases, for strings as an example, would test
>         the most proficient of keyboard players. (Of which i'm not a
>         member.)
>         
>         So maybe a mechanism that enables the user to record (input
>         from a midi keyboard) at half speed, or better still, a tempo
>         slider, would solve this.
>         
>         The user sets up to 'record' his input.
>         
>         He adjusts the slider with a quick playback check, until he or
>         she is confident that the tempo is comfortable enough to play
>         a line in accurately.
>         
>         The line is recorded.
>         
>         The slider is returned to 'normal' speed, and playback
>         reflects the 'realtime' result.
>         
>         
>         Alex.
>         
>         
>         
>         On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Richard Shann
>         <address@hidden> wrote:
>                 On Sat, 2009-01-31 at 00:46 +0300, alex stone wrote:
>                 > Richard, it's good news.
>                 
>                 I should add a caveat: I have only the foggiest idea
>                 what this field you
>                 are in is all about (daws?, LSampler?, write a
>                 picture?...)
>                 I *did* have occasion to do a little composing the
>                 other day, not
>                 something I have done this past forty years, and I
>                 realised how useful
>                 it would be to be able to set denemo playing and join
>                 in on the MIDI
>                 keyboard with the notes I played getting added to the
>                 score. (I think I
>                 would want to put in the rhythm first, as I usually
>                 do).
>                 This is because I have a glacially slow speed playing
>                 a keyboard from a
>                 score, so if Denemo would play it for me while I added
>                 a line into it
>                 that would be great.
>                 So this has sparked my interest in live MIDI out from
>                 Denemo. But that
>                 is not very far in the direction you would like to go
>                 I suspect. So no
>                 holding your breath anyone.
>                 
>                 >
>                 > And Nils is right.
>                 > A fully featured Dictionary/list, and user defined
>                 port/channel/patch
>                 > would be unique, capturing the power of LSampler, as
>                 it was designed
>                 > to run, resulting in great playback,and a much
>                 closer reality for
>                 > those of us who enjoy the thrill of writing digital
>                 parchment.
>                 >
>                 > I'll also add another futuristic idea here. (gulp)
>                 >
>                 > Most daws are ill served to write to picture (film.)
>                 whether it's poor
>                 > notation, sloppy audio timing, or coarse midi, each
>                 of them
>                 > has....something that detracts from the process, and
>                 results in a lot
>                 > of donkey work.
>                 > And notation has suffered most of all in this
>                 regard. Even Sibelius's
>                 > attempt to match notation to film was dodgy, and
>                 often resulted in
>                 > mistimed events, which meant the user would have to
>                 save a midi file,
>                 > import into a daw, and repeat the process of
>                 matching sound to pic.
>                 >
>                 > In the Jack 'world' we have the bonus of good timing
>                 between jack
>                 > audio, and now jack midi. Add to that the good
>                 timing for vid, and
>                 > there's a good opportunity to marry all three
>                 together, notation,
>                 > timing, and vid.
>                 >
>                 > I wonder what the great Bernard Hermann, who wrote
>                 score whilst
>                 > watching a film, would have thought of this.
>                 >
>                 > So if Denemo responded to timing cues, within the
>                 jackmidi framework,
>                 > and, in the future, Denemo had a 'strip' of some
>                 sort at the top of
>                 > the score, which reflected timing, i.e. minutes,
>                 seconds, etc...
>                 
>                 see below
>                 
>                 >  then the three elements could come together pretty
>                 well. I realise
>                 > we'd still need to record, and polish a notated midi
>                 score, but as i
>                 > wrote in the previous post, if doing this reduces
>                 the volume of donkey
>                 > work, then it's, imho, something worth considering.
>                 (Write notation to
>                 > pic, record to audio, with timing intact, and
>                 polish)
>                 >
>                 > Importantly, were Denemo to take on a more direct
>                 role, as
>                 > Notator/Engraver/Timed Source to pic, then we'd
>                 probably be able to
>                 > reduce the need for interim steps in the
>                 compositional process. And
>                 > add to that, a finished score  in lilypond format,
>                 and the
>                 > classical/film composer would be better served than
>                 with any other
>                 > setup i know of. (And i've owned, and have gathering
>                 dust, most daws,
>                 > and notation editors.)
>                 >
>                 > This is idea basically requires only a timing
>                 device/meter, shown only
>                 > in the score when composing. (not to be printed)
>                 > I don't know how to code so i don't know how
>                 difficult this would be
>                 > to achieve, or even consider.
>                 
>                 I suspect we will have the possibility to write a
>                 script that does that
>                 quite shortly: to each chord/rest a DenemoDirective is
>                 attached which
>                 displays on a strip above the staff the time computed
>                 from some tempo
>                 data. I am just now adding the ability to put the
>                 displayed text in a
>                 strip (or anywhere else of course). Then we could
>                 simply step through
>                 the score computing the timing of each note, taking
>                 into account the
>                 note lengths and (equivalent of) metronome markigs.
>                 More work will be
>                 creating/setting/querying a MIDI track. I wrote an
>                 outline of this a
>                 week or two back.
>                 Perhaps Jeremiah has got this in mind with his
>                 introduction of a MIDI
>                 out channel?
>                 Richard
>                 
>                 
>         
>         
>