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One thread or four is making no difference at all
here. Each just gets the same result it got before. There is a sort of
consistency in that the wrong result can be reproduced just like the right one.
I just don't know exactly what triggers a move between them. Mike can you get
3-ply up as showing No double/Take? If you do I bet a rollout from there will be
very close to my initial .847 take rather than the correct .877
take.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:30
AM
Subject: Re: Requested gnubgautorc
I think this was asked earlier by someone else.
Have you tried both these versions of Gnubg where Threads have been set to one
on each. One thing some of us have noticed is that results can vary based on
threads being higher than 1. I am just curious. What results on rollouts do
you get when you run with 1 thread only (I am trying to eliminate the most
obvious reason for a possible difference). If I understand your output below
you have 2 versions with same settings producing different
results.
On 28/08/09 2:15 AM, "Neil Robins" <address@hidden>
wrote:
TRUMP THIS
FOR NONSENSE
I now
have two versions of GNU open on my computer and after a lot of trial and
error, clicking around etc, but changing no basic settings, I seem to have
achieved getting one each to reproduce the differing results I got earlier.
Other plys may be producing nonsense, but at least it's consistent
nonsense.
I see these inconsistencies as a huge problem.
GNU
Backgammon Position ID:
gwEAQCoAAAAAAA
Match
ID :
cAmgACAAGAAA
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
O: wwwcars
|
|
| O
O
| OOO 2 points
|
|
| O
O
| OO
|
|
|
|
OO
|
|
|
|
OO
|
|
|
|
OO
v|
|BAR|
|
5 point match (Cube: 1)
|
|
|
|
XX
|
|
|
|
XX
|
|
|
|
XX
|
|
|
|
XX On roll
|
|
| X X X X
| XXX 3
points
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
X: Anterico
Cube
analysis
3-ply cubeless equity +0.386 (Money:
+0.386)
0.693 0.000 0.000 - 0.307 0.000
0.000
Cubeful equities:
1. No double
+0.599
2.
Double, pass +1.000 (
+0.401)
3. Double, take
+0.541 (
-0.059)
Proper cube action: No double, take (12.8%)
Rollout
details:
Centered 1-cube:
0.728 0.000 0.000 - 0.272 0.000
0.000 CL +0.455 CF +0.647
[0.000 0.000 0.000 - 0.000
0.000 0.000 CL 0.001 CF 0.001]
Player wwwcars
owns 2-cube:
0.732 0.000 0.000 - 0.268 0.000 0.000 CL
+1.529 CF +0.847
[0.000 0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000
CL 0.000 CF 0.001]
Full cubeful rollout with
var.redn.
20736 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 867000880 and
quasi-random dice
Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world
class]
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity
0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world
class]
GNU Backgammon Position ID:
gwEAQCoAAAAAAA
Match
ID :
cAmgACAAGAAA
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
O: gnubg
|
|
| O
O
| OOO 2 points
|
|
| O
O
| OO
|
|
|
|
OO
|
|
|
|
OO
|
|
|
|
OO
v|
|BAR|
|
5 point match (Cube: 1)
|
|
|
|
XX
|
|
|
|
XX
|
|
|
|
XX
|
|
|
|
XX On roll
|
|
| X X X X
| XXX 3
points
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
X: Neil
Cube analysis
3-ply cubeless
equity +0.420 (Money: +0.420)
0.710 0.000 0.000 -
0.290 0.000 0.000
Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take
+0.677
2. Double, pass
+1.000 ( +0.323)
3.
No double
+0.599
( -0.077)
Proper cube action: Double, take
Rollout details:
Centered 1-cube:
0.728 0.000
0.000 - 0.272 0.000 0.000 CL +0.455 CF +0.647
[0.000
0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000 CL 0.001 CF
0.001]
Player gnubg owns 2-cube:
0.735 0.000
0.000 - 0.265 0.000 0.000 CL +1.549 CF +0.877
[0.000
0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000 CL 0.000 CF
0.000]
Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
20736 games,
Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 867000880 and quasi-random
dice
Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
keep the
first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip
pruning for 1-ply moves.
Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world
class]
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Petch <mailto:address@hidden>
To: Neil Robins <mailto:address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden
Sent:
Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: Re:
Requested gnubgautorc
Interestingly enough, after
doing some experiments (with evaluations, not rollouts), I am unsure
there is a bug here. The position seems very volatile if you
factor in potential future cube decisions. It may just be a fluke
that 1 and 2 ply got it right (It didnt look deep enough to see
future cube actions). Id like to hear feedback from others on
this.
With that in mind I asked GnuBG to tell me (as an
experiment) what the result would be if the checker play evaluations
on cube decisions were cubeless, and except for 0 ply everything
came out Double/take.
On a side note, and I am wondering how
other people feel about this. On the Hint screen (or on analysis
pane for analyzed positions) you have the 0/1/2/3/4 buttons Each
corresponds to a cubeful N play evaluation. I have always found
this not be be very intuitive. My expectation would be that
0/1/2/3/4 would use the existing settings that you can see with
... and simply change the ply level for cube and checker (and keep
all other settings like cubeful/cubeless/noise/filter the same). I
found myself wanting to do cubeless checker play evaluations on cube
decisions and I kept having to click ... change the ply level
manually, click OK, then hit the Eval button. My view is that if I
hit those buttons 0/1/2/3/4 I want to see the difference at each
ply level with respect to my current eval
settings.
Michael
On 27/08/09 2:24 PM, "Neil Robins"
<address@hidden>
wrote:
I have same
result as initially on a different computer with 20090612
version.
----- Original Message
-----
From: Michael Petch
<mailto:address@hidden>
To: Neil Robins <mailto:address@hidden>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:05
PM
Subject: Re: Requested
gnubgautorc
Something is very bizarre. Im
going to try some experiments with some internal features
of Gnubg turned off. But as you suggested in your post,
exiting Gnubg and restarting alters the outcomes. but then
I have found sometimes all plies start giving the right
output.
On 27/08/09 1:43 PM, "Neil Robins" <address@hidden>
wrote:
Strangely, I am yet to see a problem with any
other position.
|