Re: [Bug-gnupedia] Content Format

[Rob Scott]

hehe no actually i was only saying that because he put
the line:

> > > If we need free tools to help in the creation of
> > > Nupedia, we can do it.


--- Tom Chance <address@hidden> wrote: > I think
what Rob is trying to say here (I might be
> wrong) is that we would be missing a great
> opportunity
> if we kept articles in exactly the same way as
> Nupedia. It may be that that way is simply the only
> option, or by far the best, bot both Rob and I
> disagree.
> 
> However I suppose if people really want to keep the
> articles themselves in individual files, the way to
> go
> is to index them with a mySQL database (for
> searching
> etc.) and to keep the files themselves as simple
> text
> files in a large respository. All the searching,
> parsing and displaying of the articles would be done
> by Perl (the internet's best language, which could
> easily convert m$ word, LaTeX, MathML etc. documents
> into formatted plain text. It could also parse the
> text files for things like <author> and interpret
> them
> in the same sort of way that XML would be doing),
> and
> displayed on the frontend in simply html form (as
> XML
> won't work with many browsers, even back to Netscape
> 4.6 whose support for XML is awful). 
> 
> 
> Tom Chance
> 
> 
> --- Rob Scott <address@hidden> wrote: > WE
> ARE
> NOT NUPEDIA
> > 
> > --- Jean-Daniel Fekete <address@hidden>
> > wrote: > 
> > > Bob Dodd <address@hidden> Wrote :
> > > 
> > > > Why are we getting so hung up on content
> format?
> > > >
> > > > Clearly there is a *minimum* level of
> > information
> > > we need to know
> > > about
> > > > the entry (however that gets submitted and
> > > stored), and we need to
> > > know
> > > > what format the content is in, in order to
> > present
> > > the content to the
> > > > user. But that's all.
> > > >
> > > > This whole thing about HTML, XML, Tei, Latex,
> > > MathML for content
> > > > description is meaningless, and so quickly
> > > outdated by the "march of
> > > > technology" as to make discussion almost (but
> > not
> > > quite) pointless...
> > > 
> > > No, this is not true.
> > > All the "big" libraries like the Lib. of
> Congress
> > > are concerned about
> > > persistence of technology.  They have not been
> > able
> > > to re-read tapes
> > > that have been written ten years ago.  They know
> > > what they are talking
> > > about for data format and encoding, as well as
> > > keeping textual
> > > information for a long time.
> > > 
> > > However, they are now considering XML as mature
> > > enough to be the
> > > infrastructure for encoding  their textual
> > archives
> > > and they consider
> > > TEI as the good format.
> > > 
> > > The point is not to have the latest technology
> > here.
> > >  The point is to be
> > > able to describe an encyclopedia faithfully
> > without
> > > losing important
> > > information.  If technology changes, it is easy
> to
> > > translate from
> > > XML/TEI into something else that suits our
> needs.
> > > 
> > > To make a parallel, if you consider the GNU
> projet
> > > ten years ago, RMS
> > > chose the "C" language because it was mature
> > enough
> > > and could be used to
> > > implement all desirable applications.  "C" has
> not
> > > been chosen because
> > > it was the "best" language, nor the preferred
> > > language of RMS, just
> > > because it was mature.
> > > The point is the same with XML and TEI that can
> be
> > > paralleled with Unix
> > > (the infrastructure) and "C" (the language).
> > > 
> > > > There is a minimum practical limit on content
> > > formats in that our
> > > > "editors" (however you wish to define that
> term)
> > > need to be able to
> > > > check for spam etc. After that, it's up to
> > > presentation tools to
> > > decide
> > > > how to handle the format of the material (e.g.
> > > some may not be able to
> > > 
> > > > display Chinese or Arabic fonts), and when
> they
> > > can't how they inform
> > > > the user (e.g. a prompt to "Format xyz not
> > > supported: save to disk?")
> > > >
> > > > Let's be honest, the vast majority of people
> > don't
> > > even know latex or
> > > > Tei exists, would be terrified of writing
> > > XML/HTML/WML, and would
> > > > expect to write their (formatted) entries in
> > > Microsoft Word, embedding
> > > 
> > > > pictures created using Excel and Visio. If we
> > want
> > > their entries (and
> > > > it's pointless even saying "text files",
> because
> > > most people would
> > > > think that a Word document *is* a text file),
> we
> > > need to accept those
> > > > formats too... So long as storing an
> retrieveing
> > > the content doesn't
> > > > have copyright issues, I think you have to
> leave
> > > it to presentation
> > > > tools, as to which format they support, and
> when
> > > they can only show
> > > our
> > > > "mimumum" information.
> > > 
> > > You can already create XML/TEI documents using
> > Emacs
> > > and FrameMaker.
> > > It would be better if Microsoft Office could
> > produce
> > > it but I don't
> > > expect that in the near future.
> > > If we need free tools to help in the creation of
> > > Nupedia, we can do it.
> > > But it would be a much difficult task to build
> > > another XML DTD plus the
> > > tools, given the DTD would evolve quickly.
> > > 
> > > > OK, you can encourage certain content formats,
> > but
> > > you can't be too
> > > > prescriptive. We also have to live in the real
> > > world, where most of
> > > our
> > > > authors may be computer literate, but their
> idea
> > > of document
> > > production
> > > > is to use commercial tools (that often come
> > "free"
> > > with their PCs).
> > > 
> > > You are right, the format required for a
> > > encyclopedia is probably
> > > complicated.  I have written some encyclopedic
> > > articles (about
> > > PostScript and PDF) and it took me time to do it
> > > right.  Somebody
> > > re-entered it in FrameMaker and did the
> editorial
> > > work to fit the
> > > quality of the encyclopedia.
> > > 
> > > I don't know how to avoid that.  I could have
> done
> > > it, but you cannot
> > > expect a specialist of say botanics to follow
> the
> 
=== message truncated ===


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